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Old Jun 28, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25   #41
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3)Guild Halls and the NPC's within cost a fortune.
......
Again I am speaking in a new players point of view and not of myself.
Why buy it yourself?
A guild is team efford, so why should the guild hall not be that way?
In my previous guild, I bought a few NPCs for the guild hall.
Just because they were my (RL) friends.
In my current guild I would do the same, though they are not my (RL) friends, but I like playing with them very much.

And I don't know what this has to do with the 'new player'.
The moment they should be thinking about making a guild is several months away. Getting a hall and equipping it even longer.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 06:47 AM // 06:47   #42
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Agree with the OP, the nerf has ruined the game for me. Once you have finished the game, there isn't anything to do besides farming, and solo farming was the only way to make money. Getting more golds on hard mode is worthless, as we can't sell them as there is no trade system.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56   #43
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Would you like some cheese with that whine?

No trade system? Really? Heard of Kamadan, or KC, or LA, or Droks? You walk in, you spam what you want to sell in a fashionable way at a decent price, it sells. Solo farming is NOT the only way to make money. Do people even do quests anymore? Doesn't seem like it. They give money rewards along with what you earn from the act of DOING the quest. Anyway, guild halls don't cost that much. You say 'as a new player' but my monk earned more than 5k on the pre island in Factions without selling anything to players, and I wasn't farming. I'm not even level 20 yet. Who makes ALL their money from whites anyway? Tonight, I received several golds and atleast ten purples. And pure 100+ gold drops. I would say 'in a group of six' but that's not relevant, because of scaling, right? Gold is just as easy to get as it was before. End of story.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 08:42 AM // 08:42   #44
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the prominent question is. is loot scaling better for most players than the old system?

the answer is no.

yes. gold item drops are exempt. we know....stop quoting them. but for the farmer they are few and far between, and nothing near the amount of money needed in the 100K+ regions for the high end vendor stuff....like the 15k armour vendors etc. so unless THEY go down by an 1/8 th......the climb towards 15k has been upped.

and for the inflation enthusiasts....here's a brain teaser...if everything now costs less....and bot farmers get less....people will NEED less....and bot farmers will simply SELL less.....we're back in square one except that everyone now has less money and are grovelling for things that haven't change....like fixed priced items/skills/high level armors etc.

with reduced inflation, people will ask little amounts of gold from bot farmers....which is just dandy because they're getting little at the moment.

NOTHINGS CHANGED!

everything in the merchant still costs the same, hell, im not gonna spend 1.5k i just spent groveling to get on a lockpick. the only things i HAVE noticed go down is the materials. which only means we're now getting even LESS money for drops we salvage. and of course base armour is now 1k....well thats because the insignias are now removed from them...the price of gold money hasnt gone up.

loss loss loss on every side. for me, the cost of everything has stayed the same, and money drops and mercheable white drops have decreased drastically. which makes it frustrating for me because i have 10 pve characters, and im also an armor collector....yeah, i know someones gonna say i should play for fun..but my idea of fun is armor collecting...

i've always defended GW to the bitter end, every farming skill that got nerfed, i looked for another way, every farming area that got nerfed, i went to new pastures. i've never bitched about or hated anything in GW untill this. with changes to such a BASIC element of the game, im doubting gw:en, and im doubting gw2 even more....i wont be buying it if it has loot scaling thats for sure. This one is a kick in the nutts. it;s a joykill, it really is. i dont want to lose faith in anet. but im just so hacked off.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43   #45
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Unless you are selling a perfect elemental sword or the like, selling is not effective, takes too much time, and is boring.

And quests are worthless once you reach max level, a 200 gold reward is a joke.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01   #46
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Bitch about it some more... The fact is loot scaling is probably going to fix an already messed up economy. It's been in pretty bad condition from the beginning. If it wasn't so early I would go further into this but since it's 4am I think I'm going to try to get back to sleep... Maybe I'll finish this tomorrow.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22   #47
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*sniffs thread*

Hey! This is just another "zomg stop the bots" thread in disguise.

I'm really not having a problem making money in this game. I started a monk from scratch using no existing funds or weapons and I've been able to afford Kurzick 1.5k armor and plenty of skills and elites for myself on what I've made whilst playing though the game. You don't *need* obscene wealth to play GW...and in the end...the money isn't going to do anything special, especially when GW:2 comes out.

Last edited by Cebe; Jun 28, 2007 at 11:24 AM // 11:24..
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 11:34 AM // 11:34   #48
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Solo farming (including bots) was pwned that one day ANet made all loot scale depending on party size. You whined, ANet chickened out and reverted it. We could have increased drops and party farming right now, blame yourselves.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48   #49
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I must be the only one who's made more money SINCE loot scaling.

The proof is in the FOW armor my Dervish has.

But as Celestial said, you don't need hordes of money to play this game. I myself played most of it with the bare essentials.

And if you want more money I found people reach one of two conclusions. Either do something about it, or make the new loot scaling thread of the week.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59   #50
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With the current system, trading is NOT a viable option for making money.

It is not an exaggeration to say that the in-game player-to-player "trade system" is a failure, and utterly hostile to new players that are unaware of the market value of items.

All my 8 character slots are filled, 6 of which act only as mules to store all the good weapon upgrades, inscriptions, and other valuables that I find from day-to-day questing. I only store those that I know should fetch over 500g.

Can I sell any of this stuff? Not when I have to stand for a good hour or more in one of the crowded trade districts SPAMMING endlessly to make my wares slightly visible above the sea of scrolling pink MIGRAINE INDUCING text that comprises the Trade channel. In the end I give up. That's why I currently have 6 characters doing nothing but hoarding all my loot.

My ambition in this game now (I've finished all 3 campaigns) is to aquire one complete set of Ascended Kurzick armour for my ranger. That is all. This requires raising a lot of money. This sort of money can not be acquired simply by playing through the game normally, as Anet would like us to believe. Now that farming has been nerfed it can no longer be acquired unless you get that perfect gold drop and also have the time to stand in a city spamming for hours until you get a customer. I don't enjoy this one tiny bit, and neither I'm sure do 99% of us here.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02   #51
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Default Prime example....

Ok... Here is a simple test I did last night -

Party:
Myself, Koss (Hero), Margrid (Hero), Drunk (Hero), Illusionist (Hench), FireMage (Hench), Healer (Hench), Motivator (Hench)

Campaign: Nightfall

Location: Honour Hill to South Eastern corner and all around, skipped 2 of 3 bosses, killed the 3rd one.

Killed over 100 monsters consisting of skree, djinni, deathbane lizards, alien looking lizards, and hecate mobs.

Gain: 750g, 2 skree vambraces (white), 1 purple wand (had inscription of salvage on it), 1 light blue shat bow of junk

That's it...

Almost 2 hours of fighting.... a HELL of a lot of 10 monster mobs. I couldn't even break 1k after 2 hours. Before the nerf you would get at least around double that in gold value from runes or salvage or items.

It is funny... I have 47 skill points but not even 5k to get me a few new skills...

Unlucky? I am not sure... but since the loot scale... I know for a fact that my drops and gold income per say per hour is well under half what it used to be... Why am I concerned with this? I can't afford new skills... I can't afford just about anything now
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05   #52
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I think they didn't intend to affect large party booty, but somehow implemented the change wrong... they really intended to just cut back on solo farming profit margin.

(FYI - I HAVE to use heroes and hench... I can't even find PUG and my guild is very small... so what choice do I have? )
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55   #53
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Prowlinger, I'm sad to say you'll get little support here.

Those players who have lots of cash, items, armor, etc - have it because it was a goal for them, a status symbol they can point to and say "I'm better than you". Consider it the GW equivalent of the teenager who has the sports car. Whoop-dee-friggin-doo, right?

What they do not realize is that really, the people who notice armor and weapons are in fact, themselves and only themselves.

But never ever tell them that, they get really mad that everyone is not noticing them. Whoops, did I say that out loud?

So yeah, look at this as an arms race between a select few who beyond reason and sanity care about in-game booty, and are willing to invest unreasonable amounts of time. (or $$$ in shady chinese gold buying)

ANet is choosing to cater to them by restricting gold access in the game world. The tradeoff comes down to - either you or I could spend the next 200 days playing GW virtually nonstop and make mad cash and get the things that the zealot fanatics already have, right? We have the option. I am just not choosing that option, obviously. I live on collector or 1.5K armor, and drops. I made one exception, the Ancient Monk armor was cool - so I spent the 40K that I could have used to buy more skills. Meh.

But this is only a game to me, and whatever - it will all go poof in a few years.

But if you and I are not willing to put in that time, then ANet has simply shown that they are siding with the fanatics and zealots in limiting access to the better looking gear to them - so they have something to crow about. Otherwise, they might realize that their investment of hundreds or thousands of hours in GW was actually a huge waste of time..........? Maybe better spent actually meeting people of the opposite gender in this magical adventurous place called "outside".

All this is food for thought, and intended to get you and anyone else reading this thread thinking.

And as to where I am going with this? Look at this game as a horse - ride it while you can, and stop when it is no longer fun. It sounds to me like you are not having fun at farming with reduced rewards.

Don't listen to all the fanbois who claim they make more money per unit of time now - that's obviously wrong as ANet has only lowered rewards.

So what, you want to make all the GW fanatic nerds cry when you have the same in-game armor that they do? Without the trippy amount of time it takes to get it?

How dare you.

Thanks!
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08   #54
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Why are there people always pussy footing around the subject when we're talking about loot-scaling.

they always make it a personal affair about vanity or teenage-mind frames and etc.

im just trying to get a simple message across.

The current loot scaling does not validate the way the game expects you to fork over huge sums of cash for 1) expensive titles and 2) ascended armors.

OK ok. so you guys think that loot scaling is all great and dandy.

do this then. go take a regular farming build. i dunno. VwK
Kill more than two thirds of the grawl there and smile at the 3 grawl necklaces, the single grawl gear and blue staff that you recieved. do you know how frustrating that is.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10   #55
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sry. to be clear. i was talking about killing grawl at witmanns folly.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27   #56
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Allow me to add my own example from last night.

Vanquished Gyala Hatchery (explorable) with a full party of heroes/henches. (Watch your aggro when you do this! Roaming mobs... but I digress...) When all was said and done, I had three golds, a handful of purps (one had a major vigor) and my inventory was full with whites. I didn't bother to count the gold.

Back in town, ID'd and merched everything, including the whites. (It's important to ID all your whites! You can double the value of the gold the merch gives you at the cost of 5gp for the ID.)

I replaced my lockpicks (always start with 10) and gave Dunkoro the major vigor (he wouldn't shut up about it...) Net result, I had more gold than I started with by a couple plat.

Loot scaling does not affect the full party! Now stop whining and go make money the fun way.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43   #57
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Alright, im gonna post this again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
I like what Anet has actually been doing. Lets take a look at the evolution of loot shall we? Im going to exclude changes to treasure chests since thats not part of the topic.

Originally rare items of perfect caliber were very rare. Even rarer were rare items of perfect caliber and rare skins. Getting rare items with low requirements was hard too. Salvaging weapon mods was also VERY risky, since perfect mods were hard to get off of weapons.

This creates an environment where prices for useable weapons is very high. Yes collector items are perfect, but theres mod NPCs so buying weapon mods is costly. Theres a sense of elation when you get a good item since those are so rare to begin with. Theres also a sense of anger when you try to salvage that perfect mod, only to get wood. Armor prices are fixed. Skill prices are semi-fixed. Getting a gold item meant a lot of money really quick. This is also the time when runes were VERY expensive, remember when superior absorption was 100k? And monk runes meant lots of cash?

This was the time when a req 11 rare item with imperfect mods could be sold for some money, since there was so few good stuff.

Since white items dropped plenty, farming could easily generate money for armors/skills. However the truly COOL (but not required) stuff required lots more grinding since they are so expensive.


Fast forward..... What has Anet added?

Improved Drop rates - Believe it or not, drop rates are much better now.

Improved Rare item stats - Believe it or not, rare items have higher chance of being perfect in stats now. Especially with the inherent mods added to staves.

Improved Salvage - This is obvious. Remember when you wanted that 10/10 sundering, and salvaged iron? Doesnt happen anymore.

Introduction of Green items - Good weapons for everyone. Need a decent healing staff? Get a wenlauss.

These things have increased the number of rare items with perfect mods. Prices for some items dropped. Rare skinned weapons still commanded good prices, but things are generally cheaper. But now...selling your crappy gold was impossible. Only perfect items will sell. Rune prices have dropped heavily. Green items provided an alternate way to gain weapons as well as make money.

White items still drop decently, so farming them can get you your armor/skills. But getting a rare drop no longer meant instant cash. Its easier to gain items, but harder to make money.

Fast Forward some more.

Introduction of Inscribable Weapons and Armor
The whammy of all whammys. Prices plummet. Inscribable weapons are great to use, but harder to sell for money. Only the truly rare items are worth much. Non-inscribable weapons drop in value. Now you need even more perfect inscribable weapons to make money. Insignias and inscriptions provide a new market to make money, but only few standouts are really expensive.

Introduction of Loot Scaling and Hard Mode
Now white items are harder to farm for cash. Hardmode has added a new place to get rares but their worth has dropped drastically that its still hard to make money with perfect rare items, if you can even sell them.. Meanwhile...armor costs and skill costs are still there.

So overall. Usable items are easier to gain. Cold hard cash is harder to get. Armor and Skill costs more or less stay the same.

So what else needs to be changed?
Skills need to be able to be gained without intensive farming - See my skill token idea.

Non-elite armor prices are ok to me....but increasing white loot for full parties is a good reward and incentive to casual non-farming players so they can afford their armors. Insignias need to increase in drops as well.

I think rare items are at a good place right now, we just need a better way to sell it.

Listen guys.

15k Vanity armor, Vanity weapons, and all that junk are all designed to be Gold sinks and Time sinks. You must never forget this.

Prowlinger, your only legitimate complaint i would agree with is skills, and ive pointed out a solution many times in various threads with use of skill tokens as quest rewards.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58   #58
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Problem is the improved drop rates on golds, and greens, combined with less actual gold when farming has oversaturated the market with things to sell and drained the game of cash reserves. That's what's killed the economy.
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02   #59
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Good points TabascoSauce...

My argument isn't about getting something for nothing (and your checks for free)...

You hit the nail on the head... if the drops are reduced in hero/hench large parties.... the expensive of skills and high end items has not changed.

Granted I am not an economics master, it is pretty logical to say that the drop rates of everything is volatile now. I have yet to play in HARD mode... therefor I am seeing reduced drops in NORMAL mode. I do have some characters I **could** go farm with just for hard mode but this isn't WHY I am playing the game right now.

I am just in the middle of Nightfall... in Vabbi... using Heroes and Hench and an occasional Guildee or two... (mobs are forcing me to fill out the party to max of 8 teammates to survive). I am even using greens for most of them and good sets of runes... I was able to make a "living" before the changes... and now I am losing money. The income ratio per hour is at least cut in half for normal mode. We know we are not going to get rich here... unless someone wants to donate 100k to me and I will just shut up...

It is like getting a cut in your paycheck by 50%. Now to make the same amount of gold per hour ratio you will have to work the night shift and it will be x10 harder at that (hence HARD mode). Don't get me wrong, I think hard mode is a great thing... but I am not there yet. I feel like I am being forced to switch to playing hard mode with old characters just so I can upgrade my current campaign NF characters who are still not even out of Vabbi yet.

I do think solo farming runs should be looked at and toned down... not everyone does it but when they do... chances are the bots are doing it the most. What does not make sense is that with a party of 8 (heroes and hench) the drops rates have greatly decreased (on top of them taking their share already)... So honestly... unless you play in all human groups... it is a lose lose situation for people still not into hard mode or PUGs yet.

Maybe some day I can reach the end of NF and Factions... being able to afford to is to be determined.

I do love GW... and plan to get GWEN... it just is very hard to play the way you want to play and still end up broke as a skunk doing so. I had to sell my Mini Bone Dragon just to make some gold a while back... hated to do it but there was no other way to make some money without tooning a new solo farmer w/m or something like that... Kinda feels like we are being forced to grind farm now just to survive... :/
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02   #60
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Quote:
What MSecorsky said
The important question is, how much did this take you?
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